4 politicians to be charged over expenses...

[Gav]

Surprised there's been no comment. I see, everywhere, that 3 MPs and a lord* are being charged over their expenses...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02...enses_charges/


*I think this sounds like a joke**. 3 MPs and Lord walk into the Houses of Commons...

**Of course it is, but in the tragic sense.

[Spider5]

Main problem is that the MP's wrote their own expenses guidelines that were loosely defined and generally in their favour. Unfortunately some of them still decided to push beyond those lax boundaries so sod the ones that get prosecuted.

Despite the fact the expenses rules were shoddy I don't think that Legg's retrospective recommendations were fair or helpful. All that did was highlight parliament's avarice in allowing an obviously flawed system to exist but you can hardly blame MP's for taking the max if they were within the existing rules.

However, I think everyone would like to move on. Prosecute the criminals, and update the rules to fair but clear definitions by all means. The electorate and a new parliament need to concentrate on rebuilding the country's economy, survive the human and fiscal cost of Afghanistan and deal with whatever else comes along.

[Nick_C]

I have a problem appreciating the perceived severity of this issue.

So some MPs accidentally, or not, took about one million pounds from the Public monies.

Yet every year, we (the Govt/people of Britain) pay out over 150 BILLION pounds to its citizens in benefits - an estimated quarter of this (40 billion pounds) is likely to be being fraudulantly claimed.

I'm just suggesting that there might be bigger issues here. For example, spending 1.5 million quid on an inquiry to find that 1 million quid was questionably misappropriated seems, to me, to be outweighed by the fact that 40,000 times as much money is disappearing every year to crooks. How about we spend that 2.5 million, instead, on ways of recouping fraudulant benefits (eg fake incapacity benefit) claims?


(NB before anyone sends me abuse... no, i'm not objecting to providing benefits to people who actually need them etc)

[pinkelephant]

How about doing both?

[max]

How about doing both and chasing tax evaders?

[pigeonmeister]

It strikes me as slightly reductionist to make a simple cost analysis of the enquiry vs the uncovered savings (not to mention the benefit cheats comparison- which is dangerously close to straw man territory).

Restoring public faith in politics and clearing up the system for future generations can provide value to the public beyond, but by no means excluding, money. Not to mention some compelling moral and legal justifications.

But if you are worried by benefit cheats- any attempt to tighten up on fraudulent claims is going to be politically very difficult if the politicians proposing it are also on the take.

[Nick_C]

Originally Posted by pigeonmeister

But if you are worried by benefit cheats- any attempt to tighten up on fraudulent claims is going to be politically very difficult if the politicians proposing it are also on the take.

Haha, interesting..

I've kind of strayed away from commenting as to whether 'politicians' have really done anything wrong here. You are working on the basis that lots of politicians have cheated the system. Not sure a debate on this would solve anything. However, three (MPs, four people) are to be charged out of several hundred MPs - Statistically not high, nor is their £1M fiddle IMO.

Anyway, you're right in saying that politically it would be looked on in a less than favourable way perhaps.

[pigeonmeister]

Legg has demanded that 392 current and former MPs (over the last 5 years) repay money they have claimed. So clearly an extremely high proportion of MPs were abusing the system.

The fact that only four were charged speaks volumes about the level of corruption that was permissable under the previous (non)system. Those four had to be truly, almost unbelievably, brazen.

The debate, or more accurately the Legg report, was as much about fixing a comprehensively broken system. I'm not really sure why you think this is not a worthwhile debate to have. Unless you think there is not a problem that requires solving?

Now whether the Legg report will fix the system is another debate.

But reducing the point of the excercise to a comparison between the value of the claims against any other huge sum you arbritarily select is reductionism that ignores the wider damage of not doing anything.

[Not quite a Vet]

The main point of issue for most members of the public is that if these loose guide lines had been abused in the private sector, then it would have been bye bye job, pension and career. MP's should have the same rules applied to them as Police Officers, these employees of the State are capable of loosing everything if they break the rules. As mentioned by someone else i totally agree our Tax system is Not working, but i would suggest its the Tax Benefit, rather than Payment side of things that is completely flawed.